Since you asked, one civilization I find fascinating are the so called Minoans, the inventors of wine, the discoverers of olive oil, the processes of preservation and transportation, who thrived for 7000 years, writing a language undeciphered to this day.
I'm not really confident about the Minoan civilisation thriving for seven thousand years. I think there were neolithic farmers on Crete in 7000 BC, for sure. But it isn't clear that these are the same people who built the palaces there around 3000 BC. So there's a good bit of evidence for Minoan civilisation for around two thousand years. It's possible that the city of Troy was Minoan, for example. There is extensive evidence that copper was mined in the Great Lakes region of Michigan by Minoans, so they certainly had powerful sailing vessel technologies. As to the invention of wine, I suspect that has come about a number of times and in many places. Birds are known to seek out fermenting fruit of various kinds for the effect. Olives make oil, which doesn't take a lot of ingenuity to squeeze out of them. But for sure there are ships at the bottom of the Black Sea from the era when it was traversed by Minoan vessels, after it became ocean. And there are amphorae down there from those same vessels. Interesting times.
If you ever read EARTH ABIDES by George R. Stewart, you'll remember that the disease-caused collapse of society inspired the protagonist to try preserving knowledge & technology. In the end, the next generation wasn't all that interested, but he could at least teach them how to make bows and arrows, so he figured he'd reduced the time to the next civilization by a few tens of thousands of years.
I haven't, and it sounds extraordinarily depressing, Vic. Thanks! lol
I can definitely teach people how to make good arrows. Bows, not without a fine English or Japanese yew forest. But something will come up. The Mongolian compound bow, probably. Meh. Atlatl anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Hah, my mother related how a museum in Finland has a sample of a compound bow dug up from a bog in the basement that predates their development elsewhere. Not on display because no one can figure out why it is so old.
It's a thing all over the world. Some call them "out of place artefacts" but that doesn't make sense to me. Obviously the artefacts are found in the place where they were left. It is our false understanding, or misunderstanding of reality that is the issue.
We have detailed archaeological studies of hominids going back 1.5 million years and using fire in that time. We have bones and artefacts and other evidence that humans in our "modern" form, of our particular species, were here going back 480,000 years. What we don't have is any reason to think that everyone waited around living as hunters and gatherers for 470,000 years and then got up one day and started building cities and castles and complex objects.
Don't get me wrong, hunter gatherer culture is awesome. On average about three hours work in a day. Lots of siestas. I get the allure. But the conceit that it was only 8,000 years ago that agriculture was first invented? Utter nonsense.
The Finnish bog bow is not on display because the curators of the museum are full of baloney.
Your written work never fails to inspire me, I always spend a good amount of time pondering over the ideas you've described, the majority of which is perfectly feasible and if things go to plan, our plan, will very likely be implemented.
Lovely post, I can echo the almost all of the sentiments. I like technology that outlasts the owner letting him bequeath his tools.
I also yearn for more people to aim for social systems that are SELF regulating in their pursuit of goals instead of requiring constant civil management to keep irrational state goals from expanding.
In the linked post I propose a system that would make population management a willing common goal of all the people as well as reducing the subsidy of the capitalists at the expense of the citizens when it comes to natures riches.
Imanuel Velikovsky had some interesting ideas on Worlds in Collision. Some of his books can be read at the Internet Archive Lending Library in 1 hour segments just by registering.
Barry Fell has some interesting books about ancient civilisations that are not always mainstream.
Also fun is the parallels that the Finnish language has to some far flung samples of Etruscan cuneiform writing that was poorly deciphered until curious people tried to fit it into the Finnish grammar.
"Etruscan Decipherment: Translation of Etruscan Inscriptions" - Stuart L Harris, 2016
As for God, what they knew then and what we know now and what might become known in the future are not the same. It is one of the sciences that is resistant to normal experimentation and has to rely on personal perception where that is possible and where the reports can be corroborated.
This aptly titled book is one movements take on the problem. (disclosure, I am a follower)
Yes, a great many thoughts. One is to have no structural organisation, only individual scouts. Scouts train other scouts so there will always be scouts. Training materials and information is made available on the inter-webz and in book form. Local communities can start a space scout group without anyone's permission. So if a family in a remote farming community gets it in their head that they want their sons and daughters to become space scouts, they do. And if that involves later on sending some of the children with adult supervision to a scout jamboree or other event, that's up to them.
I believe that there are people who form Alcoholics Anonymous groups without anyone's permission. So that would be an example. There is a sort of national or international AA association or group, but when I go to searching, I end up with the state-wide association. Is it bloated and bureaucratic? I don't know, never dealt with them. They have officers and delegates and presumably events and offices. No doubt if you want to start a group in your area they may point you to other groups, but that doesn't prevent you from starting your own meeting. And a wide variety of support exists to provide accomplishment tokens and literature and people who have experience with the groups, etc.
Also there are holy orders that typically begin because God wants a new holy order. Someone attends to the desires of God and begins to do as God asks. Eventually there is a monastery or a chapel or a gathering place or convent or group, as God wills. Some of these holy orders ask the Pope or some other earthly authority for approval, some do not. The Rule of Benedict exists to give guidance and support and some structure and purpose. Benedict's rule has been adapted to many individual hermitages and abbeys and other places of worship.
Consider the Quaker meeting. You don't have to have anyone's permission to start a Quaker meeting in your home. Simply meet. If someone knows the style and the concepts, that person can begin meeting with a settling in request. The Holy Spirit does the rest, moving some to speak and the meeting continues until it ends. There is, again, a set of regional and national gatherings, but your meeting doesn't have to attend those unless you wish.
What is a scout? A scout is an independent operative, someone at the frontier of knowledge or activities, someone who goes over the horizon and finds out what is there, and brings back, or sends back, word. It seems to me that training people to be independent and self-reliant is a great way to limit bureaucracy. And, of course, the purpose of the scout is to be ready for whatever comes, which readiness is a mission.
Shall there be hierarchy? If some scouts choose to put together a hierarchy for some reasons, sure. For how long? For however long it lasts. And if it ceases to serve a useful purpose? Then it will be ignored or abandoned.
I'll have more to say about these topics in the upcoming second edition of the Space Scouts field manual parody. It needs to have more experiments and lessons and some code of conduct stuff that didn't get into the first edition. Soon.
I wonder if Knowledge Scouts might be a more relatable name. I like the idea all the same and would join., in a way many/most bloggers are Knowledge Scouts without realising they have a name and a calling.
It is actually a very large planet, as those who travel far from home come to find out. It has a great many people on it. I would think that there is room on our home world for Space Scouts and for Knowledge Scouts, and perhaps also for Girl Scouts, Explorer Scouts, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, and many other scouts. There's a lot to be done. I encourage you to begin bringing together Knowledge Scouts. Let me know if I may be of service.
Since you asked, one civilization I find fascinating are the so called Minoans, the inventors of wine, the discoverers of olive oil, the processes of preservation and transportation, who thrived for 7000 years, writing a language undeciphered to this day.
I'm not really confident about the Minoan civilisation thriving for seven thousand years. I think there were neolithic farmers on Crete in 7000 BC, for sure. But it isn't clear that these are the same people who built the palaces there around 3000 BC. So there's a good bit of evidence for Minoan civilisation for around two thousand years. It's possible that the city of Troy was Minoan, for example. There is extensive evidence that copper was mined in the Great Lakes region of Michigan by Minoans, so they certainly had powerful sailing vessel technologies. As to the invention of wine, I suspect that has come about a number of times and in many places. Birds are known to seek out fermenting fruit of various kinds for the effect. Olives make oil, which doesn't take a lot of ingenuity to squeeze out of them. But for sure there are ships at the bottom of the Black Sea from the era when it was traversed by Minoan vessels, after it became ocean. And there are amphorae down there from those same vessels. Interesting times.
If you ever read EARTH ABIDES by George R. Stewart, you'll remember that the disease-caused collapse of society inspired the protagonist to try preserving knowledge & technology. In the end, the next generation wasn't all that interested, but he could at least teach them how to make bows and arrows, so he figured he'd reduced the time to the next civilization by a few tens of thousands of years.
I haven't, and it sounds extraordinarily depressing, Vic. Thanks! lol
I can definitely teach people how to make good arrows. Bows, not without a fine English or Japanese yew forest. But something will come up. The Mongolian compound bow, probably. Meh. Atlatl anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Hah, my mother related how a museum in Finland has a sample of a compound bow dug up from a bog in the basement that predates their development elsewhere. Not on display because no one can figure out why it is so old.
It's a thing all over the world. Some call them "out of place artefacts" but that doesn't make sense to me. Obviously the artefacts are found in the place where they were left. It is our false understanding, or misunderstanding of reality that is the issue.
We have detailed archaeological studies of hominids going back 1.5 million years and using fire in that time. We have bones and artefacts and other evidence that humans in our "modern" form, of our particular species, were here going back 480,000 years. What we don't have is any reason to think that everyone waited around living as hunters and gatherers for 470,000 years and then got up one day and started building cities and castles and complex objects.
Don't get me wrong, hunter gatherer culture is awesome. On average about three hours work in a day. Lots of siestas. I get the allure. But the conceit that it was only 8,000 years ago that agriculture was first invented? Utter nonsense.
The Finnish bog bow is not on display because the curators of the museum are full of baloney.
Your written work never fails to inspire me, I always spend a good amount of time pondering over the ideas you've described, the majority of which is perfectly feasible and if things go to plan, our plan, will very likely be implemented.
Another very good read.
A belated response: see
https://www.planetanalog.com/how-technology-is-lost-stories-from-ancient-and-recent-history/
Our minds are running in parallel!
Lovely post, I can echo the almost all of the sentiments. I like technology that outlasts the owner letting him bequeath his tools.
I also yearn for more people to aim for social systems that are SELF regulating in their pursuit of goals instead of requiring constant civil management to keep irrational state goals from expanding.
In the linked post I propose a system that would make population management a willing common goal of all the people as well as reducing the subsidy of the capitalists at the expense of the citizens when it comes to natures riches.
https://cholecalciferol.substack.com/p/adult-resident-citizen-dividend-arcd
Imanuel Velikovsky had some interesting ideas on Worlds in Collision. Some of his books can be read at the Internet Archive Lending Library in 1 hour segments just by registering.
https://archive.org/search?query=Immanuel+Velikovsky&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22&and%5B%5D=language%3A%22English%22&and%5B%5D=creator%3A%22immanuel+velikovsky%22
Barry Fell has some interesting books about ancient civilisations that are not always mainstream.
Also fun is the parallels that the Finnish language has to some far flung samples of Etruscan cuneiform writing that was poorly deciphered until curious people tried to fit it into the Finnish grammar.
"Etruscan Decipherment: Translation of Etruscan Inscriptions" - Stuart L Harris, 2016
As for God, what they knew then and what we know now and what might become known in the future are not the same. It is one of the sciences that is resistant to normal experimentation and has to rely on personal perception where that is possible and where the reports can be corroborated.
This aptly titled book is one movements take on the problem. (disclosure, I am a follower)
https://rssb.org/book-EN-002-0.html
Well, we know the history told to us is all an illusion. Eventually all magic is revealed.
Any thoughts on how to keep the Space Scouts from becoming a bloated, missionless bureaucracy? Seems to happen to every organization eventually.
Yes, a great many thoughts. One is to have no structural organisation, only individual scouts. Scouts train other scouts so there will always be scouts. Training materials and information is made available on the inter-webz and in book form. Local communities can start a space scout group without anyone's permission. So if a family in a remote farming community gets it in their head that they want their sons and daughters to become space scouts, they do. And if that involves later on sending some of the children with adult supervision to a scout jamboree or other event, that's up to them.
I believe that there are people who form Alcoholics Anonymous groups without anyone's permission. So that would be an example. There is a sort of national or international AA association or group, but when I go to searching, I end up with the state-wide association. Is it bloated and bureaucratic? I don't know, never dealt with them. They have officers and delegates and presumably events and offices. No doubt if you want to start a group in your area they may point you to other groups, but that doesn't prevent you from starting your own meeting. And a wide variety of support exists to provide accomplishment tokens and literature and people who have experience with the groups, etc.
Also there are holy orders that typically begin because God wants a new holy order. Someone attends to the desires of God and begins to do as God asks. Eventually there is a monastery or a chapel or a gathering place or convent or group, as God wills. Some of these holy orders ask the Pope or some other earthly authority for approval, some do not. The Rule of Benedict exists to give guidance and support and some structure and purpose. Benedict's rule has been adapted to many individual hermitages and abbeys and other places of worship.
Consider the Quaker meeting. You don't have to have anyone's permission to start a Quaker meeting in your home. Simply meet. If someone knows the style and the concepts, that person can begin meeting with a settling in request. The Holy Spirit does the rest, moving some to speak and the meeting continues until it ends. There is, again, a set of regional and national gatherings, but your meeting doesn't have to attend those unless you wish.
What is a scout? A scout is an independent operative, someone at the frontier of knowledge or activities, someone who goes over the horizon and finds out what is there, and brings back, or sends back, word. It seems to me that training people to be independent and self-reliant is a great way to limit bureaucracy. And, of course, the purpose of the scout is to be ready for whatever comes, which readiness is a mission.
Shall there be hierarchy? If some scouts choose to put together a hierarchy for some reasons, sure. For how long? For however long it lasts. And if it ceases to serve a useful purpose? Then it will be ignored or abandoned.
I'll have more to say about these topics in the upcoming second edition of the Space Scouts field manual parody. It needs to have more experiments and lessons and some code of conduct stuff that didn't get into the first edition. Soon.
I wonder if Knowledge Scouts might be a more relatable name. I like the idea all the same and would join., in a way many/most bloggers are Knowledge Scouts without realising they have a name and a calling.
It is actually a very large planet, as those who travel far from home come to find out. It has a great many people on it. I would think that there is room on our home world for Space Scouts and for Knowledge Scouts, and perhaps also for Girl Scouts, Explorer Scouts, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, and many other scouts. There's a lot to be done. I encourage you to begin bringing together Knowledge Scouts. Let me know if I may be of service.